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Post by Loki on Jun 21, 2017 19:47:44 GMT -5
To the PCW roster and community,
A few months back it was brought to our attention that another fed was using our name and logo. We contacted that fed and asked them about it and in response they sent us a cease and desist along with an official Trademark (trademark 5031873)
Recently they have followed up with another email informing us that if we do not remove the current PCW Logo and all mention of it and PCW by the end of the day today, they will contact Proboards, Facebook, and any other social media sites and have us removed.
We're doing what we can but there is a good chance that come tomorrow, Pure Class Wrestling may be gone.
If that does happen I just want to say It's been an honor and privilege to compete and write with all of you.
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Post by Loki on Jun 21, 2017 20:21:47 GMT -5
Update. I spoke with Luis and tentatively this is the plan. We're going to remove our banner, any PCW headers and footers (I think that's what it's called) and remove the title belts from our main page.
I'll be working with Dan, Luis, and others to rebrand PCW and we'll use that name going forward.
So we're not dead, not yet.
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Post by Pegasus on Jun 21, 2017 20:22:34 GMT -5
Not that I really have been around since the Ice(mann) age, but I really hope that is not the case. This place was always somewhere I could escape to when I needed to and challenge myself with some of the most innovative writers and awesome people I have ever met. For what its worth, it was a pleasure writing alongside all of you (Except you new-to-me people, I never had a chance to lose to you!) I hope that things work out and that the REAL PCW gets to stay as the wonderful writers haven that it is.
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Post by The Anarchist on Jun 21, 2017 21:52:05 GMT -5
Holy. Fuck.
I hope this isn't it. I love this place and the talented writers, of whom, it has been an honor and pleasure to write with (for a few of you, get to know or have known for years).
Whatever it takes to keep the place going. I'm staying right here with everyone.
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Post by Rick Majors on Jun 21, 2017 21:53:07 GMT -5
What...!?
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Post by Alexa Black on Jun 21, 2017 22:14:10 GMT -5
I really hope that doesn't happen. I love this place and the people here. For someone like me who has Aspergers it's been a wonderful source of social interaction and fun and I also greatly enjoy the creative writing side of things too. We should fight them any way we can. Don't let em take this place.
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Post by Rick Majors on Jun 21, 2017 22:22:49 GMT -5
Someone explain this better. So, are they giving us a cease and desist despite using our logo? Did they trademark our logo? Or is our logo actually stolen?
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Post by Rick Majors on Jun 21, 2017 22:25:02 GMT -5
I see: trademarks.justia.com/868/88/pcw-86888634.htmlSo Stormm didn't design that logo? Can't we just change the logo and carry on as Pure Class Wrestling? Their name is Pacific Coast Wrestling. Just call the company "Pure Class" and make a new logo. They don't own anything related to the words "Pure Class" as far as I can tell. Just the logo and the letters "PCW" in regards to wrestling. Like, I know nothing about the law, and you guys can obviously do whatever you want, but it seems like they're just trying to scare us into shutting down.
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Post by Alexa Black on Jun 21, 2017 22:32:34 GMT -5
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Post by Non Compos Mentis on Jun 22, 2017 0:07:58 GMT -5
From what I can find they've only been active since 2015/Jan 2016. We've been using the current logo longer than that right?
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Post by A Ghost in the Wind on Jun 22, 2017 0:40:09 GMT -5
From what I can find they've only been active since 2015/Jan 2016. We've been using the current logo longer than that right? My understanding is that when Stormm made our logo, he used one of their older logos as a source of inspiration. Fast forward 2-3 years and Pacific Coast Wrestling is a bonafide, real life promotion and wants to use a nice looking logo, so either takes ours or has someone create a new one inspired by our logo, and then trademarks it. I don't know the legality of any of that. I almost feel as if we would have a legal leg to stand on, yet no money for a fight. And even though I feel like a bully just came over and told me to hand over my lunch money, I almost feel like it isn't worth the fight. We're a hobby, they're a business. They have RVD and John Morrison, and we have writers who might use a pic of RVD and John Morrison for our characters. If I had the money, I'd fight. I think we'd win. But all we really would win is a battle of pride. I feel almost validated knowing we created something someone would be willing to poach, but it's still shitty. So we'll alter the name, graphics, and logo, PCW05 might be changed to PCCW or whatever we decide the new name will be. It's mainly a fucked up thing for them to "FORCE" us to change something we had going longer than them, but those be the breaks in life sometime.
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Post by Non Compos Mentis on Jun 22, 2017 1:26:37 GMT -5
From what I can find they've only been active since 2015/Jan 2016. We've been using the current logo longer than that right? My understanding is that when Stormm made our logo, he used one of their older logos as a source of inspiration. Fast forward 2-3 years and Pacific Coast Wrestling is a bonafide, real life promotion and wants to use a nice looking logo, so either takes ours or has someone create a new one inspired by our logo, and then trademarks it. I don't know the legality of any of that. I almost feel as if we would have a legal leg to stand on, yet no money for a fight. And even though I feel like a bully just came over and told me to hand over my lunch money, I almost feel like it isn't worth the fight. We're a hobby, they're a business. They have RVD and John Morrison, and we have writers who might use a pic of RVD and John Morrison for our characters. If I had the money, I'd fight. I think we'd win. But all we really would win is a battle of pride. I feel almost validated knowing we created something someone would be willing to poach, but it's still shitty. So we'll alter the name, graphics, and logo, PCW05 might be changed to PCCW or whatever we decide the new name will be. It's mainly a fucked up thing for them to "FORCE" us to change something we had going longer than them, but those be the breaks in life sometime. What a bag of dicks. It's hardly like we're damaging their name or anything. And I know for a fact they're not the only PCW in wrestling so fuck them on the name thing. The logo I can accept but why the fucking name too? We have a PCW (Preston City Wrestling) over here and they're an actual company, I don't see them enforcing legal action there.
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Post by Alexa Black on Jun 22, 2017 1:43:54 GMT -5
From what I can find they've only been active since 2015/Jan 2016. We've been using the current logo longer than that right? My understanding is that when Stormm made our logo, he used one of their older logos as a source of inspiration. Fast forward 2-3 years and Pacific Coast Wrestling is a bonafide, real life promotion and wants to use a nice looking logo, so either takes ours or has someone create a new one inspired by our logo, and then trademarks it. I don't know the legality of any of that. I almost feel as if we would have a legal leg to stand on, yet no money for a fight. And even though I feel like a bully just came over and told me to hand over my lunch money, I almost feel like it isn't worth the fight. We're a hobby, they're a business. They have RVD and John Morrison, and we have writers who might use a pic of RVD and John Morrison for our characters. If I had the money, I'd fight. I think we'd win. But all we really would win is a battle of pride. I feel almost validated knowing we created something someone would be willing to poach, but it's still shitty. So we'll alter the name, graphics, and logo, PCW05 might be changed to PCCW or whatever we decide the new name will be. It's mainly a fucked up thing for them to "FORCE" us to change something we had going longer than them, but those be the breaks in life sometime.
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Post by A Ghost in the Wind on Jun 22, 2017 1:57:38 GMT -5
Actually, Rick IS probably right to think all we'd really have to change is the logos/graphics. In all honesty, I do believe we could keep the name if we wanted.
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Andy D
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Post by Andy D on Jun 22, 2017 5:55:48 GMT -5
The thing that bothers me is that if Stormm created that logo, then haven't they stolen his Intellectual Property in order to trademark it? There's also an interesting part in the Trademark Law I was reading in that when you trademark something you cant actually prevent anybody who was using that before hand from using that thing. It was talking more for names and terms, but it definitely means they cant prevent us being PCW
One other thing, since we don't make any profit or money out of this in anyway, doesn't our usage fall under Fair Use/Parody (more likely the parody side of it) anyway?
I think Luis is right, if we were to fight this, I think we have a good chance of winning. But we can't fight it and its bullshit that our logo gets stolen from us and we're told not to use it so that someone gets to make money of it.
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Post by Rick Majors on Jun 22, 2017 6:28:32 GMT -5
The logo thing certainly sucks, but I get not wanting to fight it and not having the money.
There's no way we should have to change the name. Just call ourselves "Pure Class Wrestling" and don't use PCW if that's the issue. They don't any any trademarks related to the phrase "Pure Class Wrestling."
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Post by Nathan Saniti on Jun 22, 2017 7:28:20 GMT -5
The thing that bothers me is that if Stormm created that logo, then haven't they stolen his Intellectual Property in order to trademark it? There's also an interesting part in the Trademark Law I was reading in that when you trademark something you cant actually prevent anybody who was using that before hand from using that thing. It was talking more for names and terms, but it definitely means they cant prevent us being PCW One other thing, since we don't make any profit or money out of this in anyway, doesn't our usage fall under Fair Use/Parody (more likely the parody side of it) anyway? I think Luis is right, if we were to fight this, I think we have a good chance of winning. But we can't fight it and its bullshit that our logo gets stolen from us and we're told not to use it so that someone gets to make money of it. While all of this is true, and I'm no lawyer on the subject, the subject of intellectual property thievery will rest solely on Justin's shoulders. He'd have to prove beyond a doubt that his logo came first. (Not sure if a screenshot of a computer date stamp of the file will qualify or not.) As for Pure Class Wrestling in name, I don't think they have legal precedent to force us to change that, though we may anyways. If I had money, I'd register PCWrestling.org to prevent them from buying it, and loop around everything I could to prevent them from further registering anything under their brand out of spite. but I'm not rich. As for the Fair Usage Act and us having the logo prior, I'm not sure where we would stand on it. In order for us to keep enjoying our hobby, we need to just suck it up and move on. For now.
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Post by Nathan Saniti on Jun 22, 2017 7:29:16 GMT -5
I've done what I could and know how to do to scrub the logo from our main page, but it will take time to locate anything else with the logo.
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Post by Rick Majors on Jun 22, 2017 9:25:00 GMT -5
So... we become "Pure Class Entertainment" just like when WWF was forced to become WWE?
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Post by Nathan Saniti on Jun 22, 2017 10:15:18 GMT -5
So... we become "Pure Class Entertainment" just like when WWF was forced to become WWE? We'll discuss potential new names in the very near future. This one isn't bad. Luis also suggested Pure Class Championship Wrestling as a thumb to the nose of Pacific Coast Wrestling. Both work for said purpose. My suggestions for a name was Fictional Asylum Wrestling (or something to that order) due to all of the crazies we have up in here. The "Fictional" part was to ofset any possibility of something like this happening again. It was nixed, understandably, but that and Pretendy Fun Time Wrestling was the other.
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